W116 450sel won't run

1973-1980 : 280S, 280SE, 280SEL, 300SD, 350SE, 350SEL, 450SE, 450SEL, 450SEL 6.9
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Ben_sulzberger
Dernburg Wagon
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Joined: Sun 28 May, 2017 11:28 pm
Model you own: w116

W116 450sel won't run

Post by Ben_sulzberger » Sun 28 May, 2017 11:40 pm

Hello
My father and I bought a 450sel and had it fully resprayed, before removing all the wiring, the car worked fine. Started up and ran like a dream. Then once we re installed all the electrical wires and everything else the car ran very poor and then wouldn't run at all. We took it to a mechanic and it ran well but then when putting it into reverse the car would stall if you didn't keep the revs up high and eventually wouldn't start. This repeated 3 time through 3 different mechanics and we gave up on the car. Recently we got motivated again and thought it would be a waist to leave it. We are buying another 450sel that has amazing cream interior and a running engine and we are going to swap the engine and interior. Before we change it is there anyone that would know what the issue could be? Also any advice for the engine swap?

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Tony From West Oz
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Re: W116 450sel won't run

Post by Tony From West Oz » Mon 29 May, 2017 2:34 am

As you have already realised, removing the wiring and reconnecting it has caused this issue and it will not be fixed by replacing the engine.
You need to look at the wiring and see where you have incorrectly connected the wiring. You may find that an item (or items) have been damaged by the incorrect connection and to replace anything them.

Where are you located? Please edit your profile to show what part of the world you are located (City & State would be good)
That way members who have specific W116 450sel experience can chime in and hopefully help you out.

Me, I can help on W123 and W202 diesels, but not much more.

Tony
Life is a journey, with problems to solve, lessons to learn, but most of all, experiences to enjoy.

'83 W123 300D 325000km (Wife's car Josephine - sold).
'84 W123 300D replaced good OM617 912 with OM617 952 and enjoyed having good acceleration for the first time since first driving a 300D in 2002 - became engine and trans donor for 300CD Turbodiesel conversion. Now parted out.
'86 W124 300D sold (Wife's old car - sold )
'85 W123 300CD, 275 000km (Fatmobile) rebuilt turbodiesel from previous Fatmobile transplanted into 280CE (occasional tourer)
'99 W202 C250 Turbodiesel (my darling Wife's car - Sold)
'98 W202 C250 Turbodiesel (my car - Sold)
'06 Ssanyong Musso Crew Cab 2WD Ute (OM662 diesel and Auto Transmission)

Ben_sulzberger
Dernburg Wagon
Posts: 7
Joined: Sun 28 May, 2017 11:28 pm
Model you own: w116

Re: W116 450sel won't run

Post by Ben_sulzberger » Mon 29 May, 2017 9:20 am

I'm in Albany Western Australia. There are no Mercedes shops around and no mechanic knows Mercedes good enough to fix anything.

Yeah we figured it would be a wiring issue but we just aren't sure where the issue is


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Ben_sulzberger
Dernburg Wagon
Posts: 7
Joined: Sun 28 May, 2017 11:28 pm
Model you own: w116

Re: W116 450sel won't run

Post by Ben_sulzberger » Mon 29 May, 2017 9:32 am

We will also be replacing the wiring along with the engine if we did. No just the engine


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AMG
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Re: W116 450sel won't run

Post by AMG » Mon 29 May, 2017 12:35 pm

First things first...
Before ripping into any task, you should have a copy of the factory MB service manual for your model.

In that respect, the forum sponsor sells hard copies on CD.

visit w116.org - get in touch with Michael Schlederer aka MForcer on this forum. He is a longtime contributor/supporter of ozbenz and his website and forum contains a wealth of detailed information, including schematics -

Don't attempt to do anything without first reviewing the electrical schematics in the factory service manual.

I can assure you that tracing the issue will be much faster if you follow the logic and the schematic diagrams.

If you find them difficult to read, you can take the PDF files to officeworks and have them enlarged / printed onto A0 size sheets.

I have done similar for my 124 and do not regret it - makes tracing a very simple and quick process.
Current:
1987 560SL 4sp. auto Signalrot "Stella"
1987 190E 2.3-16 5sp. man. Blauschwarz "Hermann"
1992 300CE-24 6sp. man. Perlblau / Iceblau "Gretel"
1992 Range Rover Vogue SE 4sp auto Ardenne Green "Oswald"
2012 Renault Sport Megane RS265 Trophy 8:08 6 sp. man. Liquid Yellow "Jean Rédélé"
Previous:
1986 560SEL Anthracitgrau "Schultz" - In Mercedes Heaven
1987 190E 2.6 4sp. auto Signalrot "Sabine" - which now resides/owns Andrew M's Garage
1972 350SLC Astralsilber "Lurch" - now in the loving care of Craig B
1989 2.5-16 Blauschwarz 4sp. auto (parted) formerly owned by Derek/Hasan.

Ben_sulzberger
Dernburg Wagon
Posts: 7
Joined: Sun 28 May, 2017 11:28 pm
Model you own: w116

Re: W116 450sel won't run

Post by Ben_sulzberger » Mon 29 May, 2017 12:44 pm

Ok thanks. Will do now


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TheMadRacoon
C 111
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Location: Melbourne

Re: W116 450sel won't run

Post by TheMadRacoon » Mon 29 May, 2017 5:44 pm

What year is your 450? If it's pre-1976 I believe it will be d-jet fuel injection. If the car started and runs, but not well, it could be - if it is djet - that you have an inoperative or damaged sensor, or MAP (measures manifold pressure against ambient pressure) or, just due to age you might have a leaking cold start injector.

Check your spark plugs...are they fouled? Wet with fuel?

Again, if a d-jet fuel injection engine, do a search on this forum for "MAP", "d-jet", "injector" and "trigger points" as these seem to be parts that affect running. Also check fuel pressure, vacuum leaks. There are a number of helpful threads here, even if they cover M110 6-cyl and M116 V8 (3.5 / 3.8 / 4.2 litre d-jet engines) whereas your engine is the M117 V8.
Emad,
TheMadRacoon
1975 350SLC Astral Silver (725) / Blue (2012, 284,900 km - present.... a real Benz, getting better and better)
1988 190E Deep Blue (900) / Cream (2006, 190,000 km - 2007, ~ 215,000 km .... FSH and still spent big $$$)
1974 280E Reed Green (860) / Bone (1993, 316,700 km - 2004, ~490,000 km and still A1)

Ben_sulzberger
Dernburg Wagon
Posts: 7
Joined: Sun 28 May, 2017 11:28 pm
Model you own: w116

Re: W116 450sel won't run

Post by Ben_sulzberger » Mon 29 May, 2017 7:24 pm

We played around with the injecters for a bit. Had the warm up regular replaced. Spark plugs are good along with coil and leads. It did start perfect then got worse then runs fine but can't idle or start without a bit of throttle


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Ben_sulzberger
Dernburg Wagon
Posts: 7
Joined: Sun 28 May, 2017 11:28 pm
Model you own: w116

Re: W116 450sel won't run

Post by Ben_sulzberger » Mon 29 May, 2017 11:47 pm

It is also the mechanical fuel system in the later models


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AMG
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Re: W116 450sel won't run

Post by AMG » Tue 30 May, 2017 12:14 am

basic circuit testing of the fuel pump relay and pump circuits, and the ignition module circuit (TSZ4) should be carried out as a starting point. There is some information in the reference library section for the ignition and for CIS.
Current:
1987 560SL 4sp. auto Signalrot "Stella"
1987 190E 2.3-16 5sp. man. Blauschwarz "Hermann"
1992 300CE-24 6sp. man. Perlblau / Iceblau "Gretel"
1992 Range Rover Vogue SE 4sp auto Ardenne Green "Oswald"
2012 Renault Sport Megane RS265 Trophy 8:08 6 sp. man. Liquid Yellow "Jean Rédélé"
Previous:
1986 560SEL Anthracitgrau "Schultz" - In Mercedes Heaven
1987 190E 2.6 4sp. auto Signalrot "Sabine" - which now resides/owns Andrew M's Garage
1972 350SLC Astralsilber "Lurch" - now in the loving care of Craig B
1989 2.5-16 Blauschwarz 4sp. auto (parted) formerly owned by Derek/Hasan.

Ben_sulzberger
Dernburg Wagon
Posts: 7
Joined: Sun 28 May, 2017 11:28 pm
Model you own: w116

Re: W116 450sel won't run

Post by Ben_sulzberger » Tue 30 May, 2017 12:19 am

Ok thanks. We have done a few tests on the fuel pump recently but I will check again to make sure. After I go through the service manual.


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