Car will not start after fuse issue

1971-1989: 280SL, 280SLC, 300SL, 350SL, 350SLC, 380SL, 380SLC, 420SL, 450SL, 450SLC, 450SLC 5.0, 500SL, 500SLC, 560SL
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dallasf
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Model you own: w107
Location: Melbourne Victoria

Car will not start after fuse issue

Post by dallasf » Wed 05 Jul, 2017 11:18 pm

Hi All,

Tonight I was changing over my power window switches in my 107 450slc, since the old chrome bezels had flaked and one switch was broken.

I noticed that right front and rear left were not working. I checked the fuse box and this highlighted that fuse 3 would be blown.

Therefore, I tried to remove the fuse and missed (fat fingers), I must have moved something as a few sparks appeared and then the car turned on (not the engine) just as if I had turned the ignition before starting. Note: the key was not in the ignition.

So I disconnected the battery and removed the blown fuse. Upon starting the car I get nothing, won't even crank over. When turning the key I lose power to those lights.

What have I done? I Assume its not the fuses as the diagram supplied on doesn't detail anything about starter or fuel pumps. Have i broken something.

I am only really starting out with cars. I need assistance please.

Thank you.
Silver 1978 450SLC - 'Jaws'

dallasf
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Location: Melbourne Victoria

Re: Car will not start after fuse issue

Post by dallasf » Fri 07 Jul, 2017 5:33 pm

My post is like the plague! :Doh:

What are your thoughts on a jump start? Would this cause more damage?
I really want to solve this myself and don't really want a mobile mechanic to come out. Defeats the purpose of my endeavour.
Silver 1978 450SLC - 'Jaws'

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TheMadRacoon
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Re: Car will not start after fuse issue

Post by TheMadRacoon » Fri 07 Jul, 2017 7:26 pm

The best place to start is a wiring diagram. Have you got one? Maybe even an old Haynes manual to start off with. You'd fond one on eBay I'm sure.

Focus on what's around & connected to the fuses you moved, and the ignotion switch. Have a look to see if there are any dislidged wires in the vicinity. I've never hot wired a car so I don't know if the ignition lights would come on in that case....I know you daid the starter didn't come on, but maybe the loose-wire theory is still valid?
Emad,
TheMadRacoon
1975 350SLC Astral Silver (725) / Blue (2012, 284,900 km - present.... a real Benz, getting better and better)
1988 190E Deep Blue (900) / Cream (2006, 190,000 km - 2007, ~ 215,000 km .... FSH and still spent big $$$)
1974 280E Reed Green (860) / Bone (1993, 316,700 km - 2004, ~490,000 km and still A1)

dallasf
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Model you own: w107
Location: Melbourne Victoria

Re: Car will not start after fuse issue

Post by dallasf » Fri 07 Jul, 2017 7:44 pm

Thanks for the advice. I need to locate the wiring diagram and go from there. Just trying to find the right one!

I haven't been able to find anything online.
Silver 1978 450SLC - 'Jaws'

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Giles
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Re: Car will not start after fuse issue

Post by Giles » Sat 08 Jul, 2017 12:53 am

1981 500SLC (Colour Black) Keeper car 'Lola' walks like woman, talks like a man
1999 E430 Avantgarde Royal Indigo (Colour 339) Mums Taxi 'Claudia'
1975 280CE Signal Red (Colour 568H) Project 'Ginger'
1980 C107 Classic White (resto project) 'Marilyn'
1999 W163 ML430 MB Search & Rescue Vehicle
1978 C107 350SLC Red 'Scarlett' the parts car. Quite frankly my dear, I don't give a damn.
http://www.kudoscc.com.au

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Tony From West Oz
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Re: Car will not start after fuse issue

Post by Tony From West Oz » Sat 08 Jul, 2017 2:52 am

Re-check the all the fuses in the fuse box.
Are they plastic bodied or ceramic bodied fuses? White metal fusible link of copper fusible links? If plastic and/or white metal fusible links, purchase ceramic bodied fuses with copper fusible links and replace all of the plastic bodied fuses.
This will eliminate poor fuses as a possible cause.

This is the recommendation for all cars which use the European style fuses.

Now you can go back to the circuit diagrams.
Life is a journey, with problems to solve, lessons to learn, but most of all, experiences to enjoy.

'83 W123 300D 325000km (Wife's car Josephine - sold).
'84 W123 300D replaced good OM617 912 with OM617 952 and enjoyed having good acceleration for the first time since first driving a 300D in 2002 - became engine and trans donor for 300CD Turbodiesel conversion. Now parted out.
'86 W124 300D sold (Wife's old car - sold )
'85 W123 300CD, 275 000km (Fatmobile) rebuilt turbodiesel from previous Fatmobile transplanted into 280CE (occasional tourer)
'99 W202 C250 Turbodiesel (my darling Wife's car - Sold)
'98 W202 C250 Turbodiesel (my car - Sold)
'06 Ssanyong Musso Crew Cab 2WD Ute (OM662 diesel and Auto Transmission)

dallasf
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Location: Melbourne Victoria

Re: Car will not start after fuse issue

Post by dallasf » Sat 08 Jul, 2017 8:50 am

Thanks Tony and Giles for the information.

I just got the ceramic fuses from autobarn. I will source the more appropriate fuses as described and replace.
Silver 1978 450SLC - 'Jaws'

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AMG
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Re: Car will not start after fuse issue

Post by AMG » Sat 08 Jul, 2017 3:02 pm

What year is your 450?

There are massive differences in 107 wiring harnesses over the years, and 3 different injection systems.

While the basic systems are common to every car, they have their own idiosyncrasies.

The reference library section contains all the information you need to troubleshoot the injection systems on your 107.

You really DO need to read it. There is nothing worse than having a half-arsed guess when you try and troubleshoot these things, it will only lead to more trouble for you and more cost.

If you do not already have one, Do yourself a favour and buy a quality digital multimeter, which can also measure duty cycle.

A good multimeter will last a lifetime. If you are wanting a recommendation, ask Dave Jones (EEVBlog) as he's tested about every version on the planet.

For those of us who are 'in the industry' there are pretty much a few standard "must have" reliable brands... a Fluke 87 V multimeter and a Tektronix MSO oscilloscope.

I'm not saying rush out and buy one - but if you do choose to invest in high quality measurement equipment, then these will not let you down. I've had my 87V for over 15 years, it carries a lifetime warranty.

Scopes are useful for reading injection and spark signal I/O as well as frequency and logic. But that is a whole other realm of diagnostics learning, and not a topic that can be summized in a paragraph.

Firstly you need to establish a few really basic functions.

1. Does the car turn on at all with the key?

If yes, then you can start looking first at the starter circuit, and the fuel pump relay / pumps / ignition circuit.

If no, then you need to look at the battery voltage, the battery cables, fusible link, main earth, and feed to the fuse box.

In a 107, the fuses are in a horrible location, and moving the seat, having a good torch, removing the trim panel under the steering column and kickpanel are "mandatory" procedures to learn.

You may find that there is a degree of "non-standard" wiring in your vehicle, and this could be the cause of your issue. in which case, removal is often the most intelligent decision.
This may extend to items such as aftermarket radio installations.
Alarms and immobilizers (often a cause of "my car won't start") which tap into ignition feeds and fuel pumps and can dead-short, leaving you stranded.

But unfortunately, without any details of the ability to look at your vehicle, there is little one can do in terms of offering help. The Diagnostics you'll have to do yourself, inline with the factory ETM (electrical manual) and be aware that most copies that are about are for LHD vehicles. So component locations are often mirror reversed, but not always.

You'll find that your glovebox compartment may need to be removed to access modules, as some are hidden in there on later cars. The D-jetronic controller is hidden in the passenger side, below the glovebox. the trim panel will need to be removed to inspect, if you have a D-jet car.

But we're clutching at straws, as we simply have nothing to go on. You'll have to start with the basic troubleshooting, follow the wiring diagram, and test in accordance with the factory service manual's procedures.

If you have not got a 107 factory service manual contact the forum sponsor and get one on CD - it will save you an eternity of frustration and it's cheap.

Start with looking at the feed to the ignition, then look for an aftermarket alarm or immobilizer - and if you find one, REMOVE IT.

Then look deeper into the ignition switch on the back of the key - they can fail occasionally.
Look at the transmission 'lockout' switch and check that it's functioning correctly.
of course fuses etc, are important as are modules like the FPR (for KE especially) so checking the function of these things are important.


Let us know where you are at, and what you've confirmed to be functioning correctly. Maybe then some people can chime in and assist.
Current:
1987 560SL 4sp. auto Signalrot "Stella"
1987 190E 2.3-16 5sp. man. Blauschwarz "Hermann"
1992 300CE-24 6sp. man. Perlblau / Iceblau "Gretel"
1992 Range Rover Vogue SE 4sp auto Ardenne Green "Oswald"
2012 Renault Sport Megane RS265 Trophy 8:08 6 sp. man. Liquid Yellow "Jean Rédélé"
Previous:
1986 560SEL Anthracitgrau "Schultz" - In Mercedes Heaven
1987 190E 2.6 4sp. auto Signalrot "Sabine" - which now resides/owns Andrew M's Garage
1972 350SLC Astralsilber "Lurch" - now in the loving care of Craig B
1989 2.5-16 Blauschwarz 4sp. auto (parted) formerly owned by Derek/Hasan.

CraigB
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Re: Car will not start after fuse issue

Post by CraigB » Sat 08 Jul, 2017 5:01 pm

Missed this first time. If what you are saying is that when you try to start, the ignition lights dim, check the voltage on your battery. Does it click and try to start or just dim? And you say "those lights" - which lights? Ignition lights that come on in the on position with the key? Another thing that can affect starting is the auto lockout switch. Have you tried in N and P?

This is just adding thoughts that others haven't mentioned, so it could be that a wire or ignition switch melting. I don't think there are fuses in ignition circuit though so sparks in the fusebox i wouldn't have thought would affect that - but maybe melting to a wire next to it and thats why your lights came on.

Good reminder to the rest of us though - if messing around with anything electrical, just disconnect battery first
Craig Baulderstone
Lurch
280s's
280SE3.5
280SL
350SL
500SEC's
560SEL's

dallasf
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Location: Melbourne Victoria

Re: Car will not start after fuse issue

Post by dallasf » Mon 10 Jul, 2017 10:08 am

Thanks for all the information guys.

AMG - its a 1978 so I will update my profile to reflect this. Thanks also for all the details in regards to troubleshooting these issues. I will follow up on the multiple questions and information you outlined as I want to be across all of this. Thanks again.

Giles actually referred me to some debris near the fuses which I hadn't seen, I removed this. I also placed the car in neutral and drive to see if it was a shift lock issue. During this process I noticed the starter and fuel pump were both engaged. Giles advised to jump the car, I was tentative to do this originally but did it anyway and the car started! I am sourcing a battery today and will swap this over.

So all is resolved...for now.
Silver 1978 450SLC - 'Jaws'

CraigB
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Re: Car will not start after fuse issue

Post by CraigB » Mon 10 Jul, 2017 11:29 am

maybe get your old battery tested. I'm just thinking if something has melted and developed a slow leak, your battery might be ok. Just a thought.

And you are in Perth, so that is a great thing to put in your profile. Just means next time you have trouble we can suggest "go see Giles!"
Craig Baulderstone
Lurch
280s's
280SE3.5
280SL
350SL
500SEC's
560SEL's

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Giles
300 SL Gullwing
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Re: Car will not start after fuse issue

Post by Giles » Wed 12 Jul, 2017 11:35 pm

I believe Dallas is a tad east of Perth.

Giles
1981 500SLC (Colour Black) Keeper car 'Lola' walks like woman, talks like a man
1999 E430 Avantgarde Royal Indigo (Colour 339) Mums Taxi 'Claudia'
1975 280CE Signal Red (Colour 568H) Project 'Ginger'
1980 C107 Classic White (resto project) 'Marilyn'
1999 W163 ML430 MB Search & Rescue Vehicle
1978 C107 350SLC Red 'Scarlett' the parts car. Quite frankly my dear, I don't give a damn.
http://www.kudoscc.com.au

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Tony From West Oz
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Re: Car will not start after fuse issue

Post by Tony From West Oz » Thu 13 Jul, 2017 12:06 am

DallasF, would you please edit your profile so we can see what part of the world you are in.
I think you are in Australia, but maybe not.
If in Aus, what part of AUS?
A couple of members have suggested adding your location, but I really think that if you want advice on what to do , who to see, and recommendations on your vehicle then you SHOULD let us know roughly where you are. It can make a big difference to what we recommend.
Life is a journey, with problems to solve, lessons to learn, but most of all, experiences to enjoy.

'83 W123 300D 325000km (Wife's car Josephine - sold).
'84 W123 300D replaced good OM617 912 with OM617 952 and enjoyed having good acceleration for the first time since first driving a 300D in 2002 - became engine and trans donor for 300CD Turbodiesel conversion. Now parted out.
'86 W124 300D sold (Wife's old car - sold )
'85 W123 300CD, 275 000km (Fatmobile) rebuilt turbodiesel from previous Fatmobile transplanted into 280CE (occasional tourer)
'99 W202 C250 Turbodiesel (my darling Wife's car - Sold)
'98 W202 C250 Turbodiesel (my car - Sold)
'06 Ssanyong Musso Crew Cab 2WD Ute (OM662 diesel and Auto Transmission)

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