W108 280se 3.5 Original paint or new paint??

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w108-feeling-great
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W108 280se 3.5 Original paint or new paint??

Post by w108-feeling-great » Fri 16 Jun, 2017 8:13 pm

Hi, First time on a forum! I have just picked up 1971 W108 280SE 3.5 in Dunkelrot (maroon). The cream interior is in showroom condition, I mean 99.9% showroom condition, Its brand-new and everything works. The car has amazing chrome. Everything is perfect. The paint is original and in good condition for 46 years but not perfect. I like the patina but am in 2 minds as to weather a new original colour paint job would be a good thing or bad thing? If it was freshly painted the car would present as new as the interior and chrome are as new. Then again, original paint is rare, the paint is a little hazy in a few spots and the boot is cracking a little, lots of little stone chips on front next to head lights but very acceptable. From 10m away it looks amazing. what should I do? What is best for resale not that I am selling. Is $10k an acceptable budget for a closed door respray at a great finish? PS I am not an expert with cars.....Thanks.

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Re: W108 280se 3.5 Original paint or new paint??

Post by Tony From West Oz » Fri 16 Jun, 2017 10:10 pm

If the paint is original, then leave it as-is. It is only original once! A repaint will reduce the value of the vehicle.
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Re: W108 280se 3.5 Original paint or new paint??

Post by CraigB » Fri 16 Jun, 2017 10:56 pm

I think there is something unique about what you have, that you can't get back to if you paint it.

knowing 108's i would suggest to take out the front guard inner splash panels and make sure all clean and put rust preventative cavity wax etc in there. Check around jacking points and make sure nice and clean and more wax. Check firewall, press against sound deadening panel listen for any rust behind. Inside doors, take off door panels, check floors and inside boot. Check if you think anthing under trim panels on doors. The one that goes across the bottom of the rear screen you can take the screw out when rear door open and pull it out a bit and check under there for mud/rust. But it sounds good so just looking over it and trying to prevent any rust.
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Re: W108 280se 3.5 Original paint or new paint??

Post by T-Modell » Fri 16 Jun, 2017 10:58 pm

Tony From West Oz wrote:If the paint is original, then leave it as-is. It is only original once! A repaint will reduce the value of the vehicle.
I completely agree, original you only get once!!! I can't see all those "super-I-don't-care-how-much-it-costs-but-it-has-to-be-perfect" restaurations ... for me such a car has the charme of a brand new A-class in a stealership.

It's your car, so do what you like, just my opinion!
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w108-feeling-great
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Re: W108 280se 3.5 Original paint or new paint??

Post by w108-feeling-great » Sat 17 Jun, 2017 8:27 am

Tony From West Oz wrote:If the paint is original, then leave it as-is. It is only original once! A repaint will reduce the value of the vehicle.
Thanks for the advice.

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Re: W108 280se 3.5 Original paint or new paint??

Post by Bartman4800 » Mon 19 Jun, 2017 5:29 pm

CraigB wrote:I think there is something unique about what you have, that you can't get back to if you paint it.

knowing 108's i would suggest to take out the front guard inner splash panels and make sure all clean and put rust preventative cavity wax etc in there. Check around jacking points and make sure nice and clean and more wax. Check firewall, press against sound deadening panel listen for any rust behind. Inside doors, take off door panels, check floors and inside boot. Check if you think anthing under trim panels on doors. The one that goes across the bottom of the rear screen you can take the screw out when rear door open and pull it out a bit and check under there for mud/rust. But it sounds good so just looking over it and trying to prevent any rust.
There are no "all around splash panels" on a W108/9.

There is a splash panel at the back of the mudguards, inline with the firewall.
It makes sense to remove these and clean, and protect against rust. Replace the rubbers (clark rubber has the profile) if they are hard and cracked.

Additionally, in Germany they sell "Lokari's" which protect all around.
https://www.lokari.de/Inner-wings-front ... -yoc-66-71

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Re: W108 280se 3.5 Original paint or new paint??

Post by ibast » Tue 20 Jun, 2017 1:47 pm

There's kind of 3 levels:

- Original, untouched. I generally don't like the word patina. It's usually applied to some rusty piece of faeces, that needs a fully resto. I'm not so wrapped up on having an untouched car anyway (see my next piont)
- Original, but made good. I think there's a good chance your car has had this done, or at least had some panels reprayed somewhere in it's history. Of course, I'm only guessing based on the fact your car is 50 years old. I've personally got no problem with this. It's normal for a car to have had a refresh in it's history. This ould it may have had up to 3.
- Complete colour change respray. If you have a fairly good car, it's best to avoid this. This will reduce the value in many enthusiasts mind. If the car is a rust bucket, then I wouldn't be so worried by this. People will be happy if you save it.

And $10k sounds dear to me for a closed door respray. I'd expect the door inners and sills done for that. But it does depend on what they are doing. If they are going to cut back and remove some dents, etc, I can see why they'd quoted that. Cars like this are a can of worms once you start stripping them back. I know because that's exactly what I'm doing at the moment. They are ALWAYS worse than you think. And unlike latter models, you can't get rocker panels for these.

Anyway, that's my opinion. Others will have a different view.

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Re: W108 280se 3.5 Original paint or new paint??

Post by AMG » Mon 26 Jun, 2017 1:45 am

There will be plenty of opinions I guess, but the main thing will be how to best preserve the originality -

In some cases it may be necessary to refinish parts or whole panels, to ensure longevity.

A resprayed vehicle does look slick, but it also loses a lot of character. 'patina' is a very american descriptor, which doesn't sit well with a lot of people who are seriously into preserving a vehicle. Mostly because the term is so loosely interpreted.

I guess the argument is wheter or not to preserve the character of the vehicle. Ultimately, doing nothing but the most minor paint correction is the most 'correct' way in the eyes of the purists.

Ultimately a happy medium between your satisfaction and your bank account will be struck.

Usually you're happy when you don't have to spend money on them. Then when you so, you won't be too satisfied with the balance of your bank account :king: :occasion5:
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Current:
1987 560SL 4sp. auto Signalrot "Stella"
1987 190E 2.3-16 5sp. man. Blauschwarz "Hermann"
1992 300CE-24 6sp. man. Perlblau / Iceblau "Gretel"
1992 Range Rover Classic 4sp auto Ardennes Green "Oswald"
2012 E63 AMG Speedshift MCT Diamantweiß "Klaus"
Previous:
1986 560SEL Anthracitgrau "Schultz" - In Mercedes Heaven
1987 190E 2.6 4sp. auto Signalrot "Sabine" - which now resides/owns Andrew M's Garage
1972 350SLC Astralsilber "Lurch" - now in the loving care of Craig B
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w108-feeling-great
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Re: W108 280se 3.5 Original paint or new paint??

Post by w108-feeling-great » Sat 08 Jul, 2017 9:36 pm

Hi, thanks for the advice. The quote I had to respray was a closed door job, removal of all chrome, strip crazed paint to bare metal where needed and respray. The company who did the paint quote do amazing work, I have seen the finish on another car and I would say it is of a show car finish, better than a new car, hense the price, money is not the major factor. In 2 minds still but will leave as is but I intend on keeping the car forever and am unfortunately leaning towards a spray but in 6 months or so. The only issue with a respray is there is a 3 month with to book in and it will take 4-5 months which is annoying but this guy is good. If anyone knows someone in Brisbane who will do a good job please let me know.

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Re: W108 280se 3.5 Original paint or new paint??

Post by merc-304 » Sat 08 Jul, 2017 11:28 pm

In Brisbane... Mercmad may do it

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Re: W108 280se 3.5 Original paint or new paint??

Post by AMG » Sun 09 Jul, 2017 12:10 am

I think Ron might have a waiting list at the moment? I'm not sure if Konrad is finished yet.
Current:
1987 560SL 4sp. auto Signalrot "Stella"
1987 190E 2.3-16 5sp. man. Blauschwarz "Hermann"
1992 300CE-24 6sp. man. Perlblau / Iceblau "Gretel"
1992 Range Rover Classic 4sp auto Ardennes Green "Oswald"
2012 E63 AMG Speedshift MCT Diamantweiß "Klaus"
Previous:
1986 560SEL Anthracitgrau "Schultz" - In Mercedes Heaven
1987 190E 2.6 4sp. auto Signalrot "Sabine" - which now resides/owns Andrew M's Garage
1972 350SLC Astralsilber "Lurch" - now in the loving care of Craig B
1989 2.5-16 Blauschwarz 4sp. auto (parted) formerly owned by Derek/Hasan.
2012 Renault Sport Megane RS265 Trophy 8:08 6 sp. man. Liquid Yellow "Jean Rédélé"

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Re: W108 280se 3.5 Original paint or new paint??

Post by mercjerk » Sun 09 Jul, 2017 1:11 am

Re Spray .. no way ......its not a holden ute .
mums house was cheaper than that car back in 1969 or 70....
its a mercedes .. il take a guess..... at 3 layers of under coat or fully dipped or something .then 4,5,6.coats of the best paint you could get at that time. ( someone will know)
caress,love ,worship and it will come back .touch up where you have to
then sleep well at night . with a smile. knowing your cars paint is 95% original.
(had before and after pics but didnt know how to post em.)

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Re: W108 280se 3.5 Original paint or new paint??

Post by CraigB » Sun 09 Jul, 2017 11:29 am

Only picked up in that last message about the crazing. Original paint does it and once it has happened the only way to get rid of it is by going back to bare metal. If you can live with that cracking through the paint and it is only small areas then great, but for most of us that is a deal breaker, so i understand the motivation more. All comes down to how it looks to you and how much you can live with.

Think about "better than new" though - for some serious collectors that will devalue it. A lot of painters only deal in 2-pack these days and i reckon i can pick a 2 pack car from a fair distance - it does look good, better than new, but to me I love the original look. Just doesn't look right to my eye and they were never that shiny - look at old brochures etc and photos. You can polish acrylic up to a good shine, but it doesn't have that incredible gloss - almost looks plastic dipped to me. Each to their own, but go to a concourse event and i reckon you will see the difference and see what suits you. I have had people comment on my pagoda and asked if it is original paint - but it is just original colour acrylic - now nearly 20 yrs old though.

No offence intended to those that love their 2 pack cars - each to their own but this thread is talking about appreciation of original look.
Craig Baulderstone
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Re: W108 280se 3.5 Original paint or new paint??

Post by w108-feeling-great » Wed 19 Jul, 2017 5:09 pm

thanks you all, the crazing is all of boot and surrounds, roof has a few minor rust spots under paint, it has a few older rust repairs where blistering is going on, lots of stone chips on front of car, some panels have had rust repairs and respray has happened in a few spots. Should have said at the start I guess. Looks ok from distance, pretty average up close. Still in 2 minds...... Will head to MB QLD concours in few weeks and check out some others. Tempted to enter, I reckon this car could take out best interior, it is showroom, it even has the original door rubbers!

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Re: W108 280se 3.5 Original paint or new paint??

Post by ibast » Fri 21 Jul, 2017 3:06 pm

How big is that blistering? That may be your ultimate driver. I'd say anything bigger than a match-head, then get it done in the next 6 months. Anything bigger than a 5 cent, get is done in next couple of months, and anything bigger than 10 cents, get it done now.

Craig is right, about paint types, but we need to be a bit careful with language. 2-pack gets thrown around a bit too readily (no offence intended Craig, it's a whole industry problem).

Most modern painters will quote a 2-part paint job. This is a paint that requires a hardener and doesn't require much polishing afterwards. And Craig is right, it doesn't always look right on these old cars. This is what's commonly called 2-pack.

However, some of the paints from these era were 2-stage (as opposed to 2-part, but some people confusing call 2-pack). This means they have a base coat and a clear coat, but no hardener is needed. This is true of the Mercedes metallic of that era. i.e. they have an acrylic clear top coat.

Because the clear top coat is acrylic, it means it will require more coats, use more paint (although the paint is cheaper) and will require a LOT more polishing afterwards.

Even if you dont' have metallic paint, and have a 1-stage paint job, the painter will need to do a lot more coats and spend a lot more time polishing.

So, with the blistering, and the extra work in the painting and polishing, this may account for why you were quoted $10k for a closed door, instead of the more typical $3k.

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Re: W108 280se 3.5 Original paint or new paint??

Post by CraigB » Fri 21 Jul, 2017 3:30 pm

Wow - I didn't think that was possible to get a reasonable $3k paint job anymore. Do you think that is an industry standard, assuming it is all straight and prepared and ready to paint? I have only asked a couple of places and have quoted much more than that but also they would only work with '2-part'. Is that the correct term for it? That's what i had always referred to it as and the second one you mentioned i just referred to being 'clearcoat' paint job.

Anyone with reasonable price paint job recommendations for Adelaide? I have done full acrylic jobs in my shed, but it is a messy job and not my favourite. And after spending ages getting my one and only metallic job looking right, not keen to repeat that - although i did learn a lot from the process.
Craig Baulderstone
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Re: W108 280se 3.5 Original paint or new paint??

Post by ibast » Fri 21 Jul, 2017 4:30 pm

There's a few blokes going around claiming they can do it for $3k but it would be assuming everything is straight and they are just slapping it on and walking away. Definitely not what you want to be doing on classic.

I'm guessing $5k would be a more professional job with the removal of a few car park marks, etc. The spraying itself isn't that long with 2-part paint. Probably not even a man-day in the booth. And the polishing is limited.

The time is parts removal/replacement and the dent/scratch removal. In an older car like these, that could be anything from man-day, to 2-man weeks. And that's without removal of rust.

You could probably get the price down if you removed all the lights and bumpers yourself, but then you;d have to trailer the car in.

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