SEC exhaust options

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drew56cus
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SEC exhaust options

Post by drew56cus » Tue 06 Dec, 2016 7:45 pm

Hi all,

My red SEC has a leak at the exhaust manifold, and the system looks a bit stuffed and is too quiet for my liking. Ron reckons he has some tri-y’s (are they 2-piece manifolds?) that would fit the car - it currently has the euro log manifolds, with 1 pipe down each side of the motor exiting at the back.
I am not trying to directly mimic an AMG system, my only goal is for it to sound nice. I like it pretty loud, and like to hear the pulsating throb of the V8. In my V8 finnie, I have Varex mufflers and that is it, and drive with them open most of the time. So almost straight through pipes. I could handle the SEC a little quieter than that. The Varex ones cost a bit though so not sure if I should try to get a normal system that is just quite loud all the time rather than quiet or very loud? I don't know who has heard CraigB's car, but it sounded nice at revs, perhaps a tad quiet under low throttle for me though - what is yours Craig?

I am sure I have seen some pics of an exhaust system that was with tri-y's on ozbenz somewhere – I was hoping to give some guidance to the exhaust guy as to what would sound good and fit well. Who remembers what thread it was in? Or feel free to post pics here. I would be interested in seeing where it changes from 4 pipes to 2, and what sort of size mufflers and number they have.
I see Gav is doing a nice system - any tips from that?
I saw the system in the wheeler dealers thread too - any ideas on what sort of mufflers they are?

Now I have to replace all the bushes in the front suspension – they are rooted. Should this be done before the exhaust goes on or does it not matter? Any other things to do before I get the exhaust done?
Cheers! Drew
Drew
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Re: SEC exhaust options

Post by Bartman4800 » Tue 06 Dec, 2016 7:48 pm

Have a look what Greg did underneath his SL(C?).

He built his own exhaust, out of mandrel bent bends and straights. All s/s

It looked great and was a lot cheaper than going to the exhaust cowboys....


Bart
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Re: SEC exhaust options

Post by CraigB » Wed 07 Dec, 2016 12:26 am

I think tri-ys are a no brainer if you can get them, so much freer flowing and yes 2 piece. I think there is dyno evidence on Benzworld where even on a standard motor you get something like 15hp. Will need new downpipes unless Ron has them too. I think if you go to the AMG classic forum, there are lots of photos on there of the AMG system or Kimrh may have them. That is what mine is with the big Remus unit at the back. I am pretty sure i checked it with a wire and it is all straight through but has lots of padding etc. I think you will also see on there replica system using magnaflow resonators/mufflers. If you want it louder you could just go with a resonator at the rear and then if too loud you can put a small resonator back before the diff. Pretty sure wheeler dealers is magnaflow.
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Re: SEC exhaust options

Post by kimrh » Wed 07 Dec, 2016 12:56 am

Hi Drew, there is nothing wrong with the Euro logs that dump each side which are known to produce good torque in the street usable range especially in the lower revs. The tri-Ys might out-perform in the higher revs but not by that much and the AMG version (which follow the path of the Euro logs) are known to be only a tad better than the Tri-Ys at top end.
We have had much debate recently since hearing the Wheeler Dealer set up that was kocked up by Magnaflow using their stainless mufflers off the shelf of their product range (pics below) using 2.25inch pipes feeding into a front dual in/out 2.25inch x 11inch case (part # 11378 or 14378 polished).
Then feeding into a rear dual in/out 2.25inch x-pipe muffler - this can be their 14inch case version (part # 11385 or polished 14385)
Or you can step up to a 14 case x dual 2.50inch pipes with internal x-pipe (part # 11386 or polished 14386)
Or if wanting to be a bit quieter then an 18inch case x dual 2.50inch with internal x-pipe (part # 12468 or polished 14468)
Or have no front muffler (just dual 2.25inch pipes) and just go in the rear their 22inch case x 2.50inch with internal x-pipe (part # 12568 or polished 14568)
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Re: SEC exhaust options

Post by CraigB » Wed 07 Dec, 2016 12:39 pm

I can't be bothered to look up this post, benzworld i think, that had the before and after dyno but that is a good point about the impact in different rev ranges. I didn't use a dyno but after fitting mine the difference is to break free the rear end much easier than it did before and I plant my foot enough to know that is a real change. I think i could hear the difference too in a positive way - but i am less sure of that. But i did have my car dynoed when i first got it and they guy said it was a bit rich when flat out and would get extra hp if that was leaned a bit. He was going to work out how to do that and never got back to me and i never worried, but it did make me wonder if that little bit more free flow at that higher revs had the effect of leaning it a little and that was partly responsible for the difference. I had heard there wasn't much difference between the tubular amg and cast triys.

So not disputing anything, especially without factual figures, but I feel pretty confident in the seat of my pants that there is a difference for my amg engine and one would think for the high comp engines that they fitted them too. Is there as much difference on a standard gen 1 engine - probably not i would guess, but if they are available and especially if you are thinking about any mods down the track, then i would do it but thats just giving my opinion. if you combine the shape and the long runs before the pipes join I think it has to be a positive, just a matter of how much and how much it costs and how much of your exhaust you were looking at rebuilding too.

Also was talking to Mike PollJonker at Adelaide Motorsport Festival who does run the eurologs still and he blames them for his overheating and why it is the next job on his list - but that is in the context of flat out motorsport.

Great to get those part numbers!
Craig Baulderstone
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Re: SEC exhaust options

Post by drew56cus » Sun 11 Dec, 2016 9:19 pm

Thanks for the tips guys.
What have people done with the EGR on their cars? The euro logs on there now have it on - do the tri-y's? Do you have to dismantle the top end of the engine to plug everything off to get rid of it?
I am still a bit confused as to which way I will go. I have an AMG car without an AMG engine. But I have an AMG engine in the shed - the E55. The SEC would handle that a lot better than a finnie coupe would - actually, the SEC feels like it needs more grunt down low (maybe it is those tall diff ratios they use on the 500?). Still tossing and turning, mulling this over. 550SEC AMG...
Cheers,
Drew
Drew
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'64 300SE/C (#2 project)
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Re: SEC exhaust options

Post by CraigB » Sun 11 Dec, 2016 11:53 pm

I don't know who blocked it off, but my AMG had the egr in place but blocked internally. When i went to triy i just put a plug in there. I get what you are saying and then i guess it just makes sense to do the tail end of the exhaust, i would get rid of the kidney bits just for the flow and use straight through boxes as suggested above. You can always do the front end of the exhaust with whatever depending on what you decide.
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Re: SEC exhaust options

Post by Dean 560 SEC » Mon 12 Dec, 2016 10:34 am

On my 560SEC (300 hp ece) I'm running the tri-y's to straight through pipes, no centre mufflers, to the original rare muffler. No drone, but it barks aggressively under full acceleration. It sounds amazing at full noise of the freeway.

Over the next couple of months i'll be replacing the rear muffler with a 14" 4x9" oval Magnaflow (11385) just to clean the note a little, as it has a inbuilt x pipe.

As its only a Sunday drive - I'm happy with it being a touch load and bit obnoxious.

I'd be on the look out for a high comp 560 motor with tri-y's for your SEC, this would be a better option that the late model motor conversion if its an original 80's AMG enhanced vehicle.

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Re: SEC exhaust options

Post by kimrh » Mon 12 Dec, 2016 9:27 pm

I just got an email from BOB who owns the Wheeler Dealer SEC widebody and he has done a bit of investigating for me
The front dual in/out 2.25inch is definitely the 11inch long case
The rear muffler is the 14inch long case with the internal x-pipe
He was not sure if they are 2.25inch dual in/out pipes or 2.50inch as he did not have any tool the measure but it does not matter as either could be used
His words
"And the sound is great, it reminds me of a 68 vette big block or 60's Shelby Mustang sound"

So it really must be pretty loud!!!
If you wanted to tame it down a tad then the rear 18inch case would work (an extra 4inches of internal baffle)

I know Craig's AMG is pretty loud so this must be pretty close to that sound without all the expense of trying to source an original muffler from the 80's which is near impossible now.
87 White Euro 500SEC "ECE" 195kw
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Re: SEC exhaust options

Post by Greg in Oz » Sat 17 Dec, 2016 11:52 pm

Bartman4800 wrote:Have a look what Greg did underneath his SL(C?).

He built his own exhaust, out of mandrel bent bends and straights. All s/s

It looked great and was a lot cheaper than going to the exhaust cowboys....


Bart
I posted it all at viewtopic.php?f=69&t=22226

After driving with it all this year I can say I am very happy with the results. I had to take the system off again to address a couple of minor issues but with those sorted it is just fantastic. The greatest surprise is how after months of use it is quieter than when first fitted. I can only assume some carbon coating all the internal surfaces results in less noise reaching the tailpipes. Considering the whole system is completely straight through (not a single baffle in either muffler) and with larger diameter pipes than the original, it is only slightly louder than the original system. Certainly not loud and for anyone wanting to draw more attention it could go without the front muffler or with mufflers of less internal volume.
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Re: SEC exhaust options

Post by kimrh » Sun 18 Dec, 2016 10:21 am

Got an email from Bob in USA after more investigating under his WB coupe when i told him to make up some stiff cardboard cutouts to measure pipe diameter.

The front Magnaflow dual 2.25inch in-out pipes which mounts in the void under the car where the twin kidney mufflers used to reside. part # 11378 natural s/s or part # 14378 polished s/s

The rear muffler is the 14inch case dual in-out 2.50inch pipes with the x-pipe design inside the muffler - part # 11386 natural s/s or part # 14386 polished s/s
The 2.25 pipework just has flared ends where it joins the front dual 2.50inch pipes of the muffler
The chosen rear tips which can have a same 2.50inch inside diameter to be welded on or you can choose your desired tip to slide over a 2.50inch inside diameter pipe with the end the you see usually flared out to 3inches (in other words the front join section is the only part of the tip that is narrower)
This set-up definitely creates rumble off the back of Tri-Y's (no cats involved here)

To go a bit quieter you would step up to the 17inch rear case with dual 2.50inch pipes (extra 3inches of case length) which is part # 12468 natural s/s or part # 14468 for polished s/s

I like Greg's idea but i do not have access to a TIG welder and hoist and mandrek bends etc so best to leave the welding of pipes up to an exhaust shop and just provide the mufflers required.
At least we know what the sound is going to be like using these off the shelf mufflers (the front muffler is straight through perforated pipes with packing - the rear muffler is an internal x-pipe which is perforated and has packing as per Magnaflow's own design on their website)

I have ordered the mufflers from Summit Racing on ebay USA for all 3 of my cars ( 3 x 11inch front mufflers and 2 x 14inch cases for my 2 x coupes and 1 x longer case for my 560SEL - all of my engines run tri-Y's)
I personally don't want any tips showing and i will be using dumper tips that are virtually hidden and fill in the factory bumper recess on the left side.
For some reason I don't like the look of chrome tips sticking out under the bumper as AMG did back in the day. It does not look right on a stylish W126 - as if trying to copy a USA muscle car look.
I will be getting Cronic Customs in Wangara to do the pipework and fitment most likely http://croniccustoms.com
unless someone in Perth knows another reliable exhaust shop who does not charge the earth and does good work?
Last edited by kimrh on Mon 24 Jul, 2017 11:09 am, edited 1 time in total.
87 White Euro 500SEC "ECE" 195kw
88 Black Euro 560SEC 220kw
89 Midnight Blue Euro 560SEL hydro 220kw AMG Kitted
http://www.flickr.com/photos/krh2013/sets/72157632548663623/
https://www.flickr.com/photos/krh2013/albums/72157668572599252

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Re: SEC exhaust options

Post by merc-304 » Sun 18 Dec, 2016 11:29 am

Kym you should have go at building a system at home, not that difficult with the car on stands/ramps

Supply a 1mtr piece of straight SS pipe to a shop and to have it mandrel bent into a C shape should cost no more than $20....then slice off the angles needed to build your system Buy some premade SS flanges etc
I did one once a single 2inch SS system where i did just that and tacked it all together by stick then dropped it off to a small eng shop to be fully tig welded and the cash cost was around $120 [ a few years ago ] about 9 welds in total
Easy to mock one up using 50mm pvc pipe and fittings then copy to SS
Big savings doing it DIY.
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Re: SEC exhaust options

Post by kimrh » Sun 18 Dec, 2016 2:28 pm

Might look into that but i am not sure where to source 2.25inch stainless steel tubing and various bends here in Perth?
87 White Euro 500SEC "ECE" 195kw
88 Black Euro 560SEC 220kw
89 Midnight Blue Euro 560SEL hydro 220kw AMG Kitted
http://www.flickr.com/photos/krh2013/sets/72157632548663623/
https://www.flickr.com/photos/krh2013/albums/72157668572599252

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Re: SEC exhaust options

Post by drew56cus » Sun 18 Dec, 2016 9:35 pm

Geez Kim you are doing some great research there, thanks!
The SEC is getting no love at the moment, I am busy on house and shed stuff and trying to get all my various projects with steering and brakes so I can move them to the new shed in about a months time. There are so many little jobs to do on the 126, and today it wee'd fuel all over the driveway so is immobile (and trapping my other cars) until I get to it.
Cheers, Drew
Drew
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SEC exhaust options

Post by McGavin » Sun 18 Dec, 2016 9:41 pm

Ecs engines in sydney post out the SS tubing at a good price, the mandrel bends in a variety of angles are $15 each, I ordered online and they delivered promptly.
I'm in the middle of hay and haven't got to finish my system yet, just got the section under the axle to finish, one day soon.

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Re: SEC exhaust options

Post by merc-304 » Mon 19 Dec, 2016 8:38 am

Performance exhaust ebay store have 2 1/4 SS pipe with a $16 delivery to Perth..price per metre is a bit high im sure you get a better per metre price in W.A.
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Re: SEC exhaust options

Post by kimrh » Mon 19 Dec, 2016 9:55 am

And ECS are closed till end of Jan - so that is no good for me
87 White Euro 500SEC "ECE" 195kw
88 Black Euro 560SEC 220kw
89 Midnight Blue Euro 560SEL hydro 220kw AMG Kitted
http://www.flickr.com/photos/krh2013/sets/72157632548663623/
https://www.flickr.com/photos/krh2013/albums/72157668572599252

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Re: SEC exhaust options

Post by kimrh » Mon 24 Jul, 2017 11:21 am

As posted in my own threads i did have both the white SEC and the SEL custom exhausts built by my local exhaust shop (Shaun at Carline in Balcatta who i've known for many years) and he did a great job on both cars with me supplying the Magnaflow stainless mufflers and him custom making the system in 2.25" stainless (the rear muffler is 2.50") with discrete mostly hidden twin dumper tips.

To keep this thead rolling along i include the recent video clip i made on the SEL
As mentioned my GoPro Hero3 has a terrible mic for sound and i could not use the external quality Rode mini mic and 6m of extension cable i had purchased to do the Vid as the USB-3.5m jack adapter cable i bought would not work on the GoPro ( since ordered an original GoPro adaptor hoping that will solve the problem in future video clips)

Anyway here is the short Video i made with the crap GoPro internal mic (had to place the camera inside the car and have all windows up to avoid wind noise and even then it still sounds nothing like the real sound live)
https://youtu.be/2Y-W2ViEhsg

Next time i get a chance i will sort out the sound and post up a Vid on the SEC exhaust as well as the SEL
Last edited by kimrh on Fri 28 Jul, 2017 10:16 am, edited 1 time in total.
87 White Euro 500SEC "ECE" 195kw
88 Black Euro 560SEC 220kw
89 Midnight Blue Euro 560SEL hydro 220kw AMG Kitted
http://www.flickr.com/photos/krh2013/sets/72157632548663623/
https://www.flickr.com/photos/krh2013/albums/72157668572599252

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Re: SEC exhaust options

Post by drew56cus » Wed 26 Jul, 2017 2:26 pm

That would be great, I still have not done anything to my car. But the house and shed are finished! Garden awaits though...
Drew
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'65 220SE/C (#1 project - Tenorite grey)
'64 300SE/C (#2 project)
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Re: SEC exhaust options

Post by lockeda » Tue 01 Aug, 2017 6:30 pm

Sounds great.

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Re: SEC exhaust options

Post by StreekG » Tue 19 Sep, 2017 12:15 pm

Stainless steel magnaflow stuff wouldn't be quiet at all, my system definitely isn't.
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Re: SEC exhaust options

Post by AMG » Tue 19 Sep, 2017 1:22 pm

I have magnaflows on Stella Drew....

I've also got no egr logs.

I'll attempt to get a vid / soundbyte for you later and post it.
Current:
1987 560SL 4sp. auto Signalrot "Stella"
1987 190E 2.3-16 5sp. man. Blauschwarz "Hermann"
1992 300CE-24 6sp. man. Perlblau / Iceblau "Gretel"
1992 Range Rover Classic 4sp auto Ardennes Green "Oswald"
2012 E63 AMG Speedshift MCT Diamantweiß "Klaus"
Previous:
1986 560SEL Anthracitgrau "Schultz" - In Mercedes Heaven
1987 190E 2.6 4sp. auto Signalrot "Sabine" - which now resides/owns Andrew M's Garage
1972 350SLC Astralsilber "Lurch" - now in the loving care of Craig B
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Re: SEC exhaust options

Post by AMG » Tue 19 Sep, 2017 2:45 pm

can't seem to get one without massive audio distortion. :think:

Might have to go for a drive and try a longer lens. She's running overly rich when cold too.

bear with me.
Current:
1987 560SL 4sp. auto Signalrot "Stella"
1987 190E 2.3-16 5sp. man. Blauschwarz "Hermann"
1992 300CE-24 6sp. man. Perlblau / Iceblau "Gretel"
1992 Range Rover Classic 4sp auto Ardennes Green "Oswald"
2012 E63 AMG Speedshift MCT Diamantweiß "Klaus"
Previous:
1986 560SEL Anthracitgrau "Schultz" - In Mercedes Heaven
1987 190E 2.6 4sp. auto Signalrot "Sabine" - which now resides/owns Andrew M's Garage
1972 350SLC Astralsilber "Lurch" - now in the loving care of Craig B
1989 2.5-16 Blauschwarz 4sp. auto (parted) formerly owned by Derek/Hasan.
2012 Renault Sport Megane RS265 Trophy 8:08 6 sp. man. Liquid Yellow "Jean Rédélé"

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Re: SEC exhaust options

Post by hents99 » Tue 19 Sep, 2017 6:37 pm

I'm bit far but I have set of RHD w126 m117 tri-y manifolds. Can't use them here. Are these common there?

Part numbers:
1171424832 ; 1171424502 ; 1171424902 ; 1171425202
560SEC, C55, W201 (2.3-16T + 2.5-16)

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Re: SEC exhaust options

Post by CraigB » Tue 19 Sep, 2017 10:25 pm

they come up from time to time but not common. I guess it depends what freight is but I would think someone would be interested.
Craig Baulderstone
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Re: SEC exhaust options

Post by kimrh » Thu 26 Oct, 2017 9:20 pm

Recently played around with a GoPro on my white coupe with its custom S/Steel exhaust (no cats) as per the above previous posts.
Using a small rodex external mic with a wind muffle i attached it to the rear number-plate to avoid as much wind noise as possible and the GoPro was mounted inside to the rear window to give a simulated rear passenger birds eye view.
My camera/editing skills are not great so it is just raw footage with no fancy background music or clever editing.
I did a day run around the block and a night run to give a different perspective
Keeping to the road rules it was just sedate local street cruising as you would do every day and it is just lazy relaxed driving for the high comp 5 litre barely able to stretch its legs at all
Anyway here it is -
Make sure you here this on a decent sound system and not your iphone
day run-
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7tAg5SgMsO4
night run-
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CjSY2xCMsDk
87 White Euro 500SEC "ECE" 195kw
88 Black Euro 560SEC 220kw
89 Midnight Blue Euro 560SEL hydro 220kw AMG Kitted
http://www.flickr.com/photos/krh2013/sets/72157632548663623/
https://www.flickr.com/photos/krh2013/albums/72157668572599252

SW4
C Class
Posts: 27
Joined: Tue 06 Nov, 2012 10:41 pm
Model you own: w126
Region: Queensland
Location: Sunshine Coast

Re: SEC exhaust options

Post by SW4 » Sat 03 Feb, 2018 8:10 am

Hi guys,

I quick question regarding exhaust. My 1986 UK delivered 560SEC need a new exhaust system due to the rear muffler being rusted through. The car has tri y's and 10:1 compression but I am unsure if it has catalytic converters? As the car is currently unregistered, will installing a new 'custom' exhaust system minus Cats be a problem when I come to register this car in QLD?

Any recommendations of a good exhaust shop in Brisbane? I am also after a good engine shop to do a top end rebuild on the car in Brisbane area too.
Thanks

User avatar
kimrh
Große
Posts: 1489
Joined: Tue 05 Jan, 2010 3:18 pm
Model you own: w126
Location: Perth WA

Re: SEC exhaust options

Post by kimrh » Sat 03 Feb, 2018 9:39 am

Stick your head under the car and see if it has a factory dual in-out Cat up front where the downpipes each side under the floor swing in close together into the Cat.
If no Cat the pipes just swing in close together and head down the back to the factory Kidney resonators under the rear floor and then onto the rear dual in-out muffler.
The car is over 30ys old now so should not be a problem if you tell them the car came with no Cats from factory is it was a high compression engine and the car was imported and into Australia and registered like that.
These engines thrive on no back pressure from the exhaust and instead the Tri-Ys and down-pipes can now with the new exhaust set-up do their intended job of exhaust scavenging properly to help pull exhaust gases out of the head for more cylinder filling of the incoming fuel/air mix.
The 2.25inch exhaust pipes seem to be spot on in promoting exhaust velocity, so i would recommend that pipe size under the car.
My rear Magnaflow 14inch case is 2.5inch internal pipes so the 2.25' pipes leading up to the muffler are flared out where it joins and that rear muffler has the internal crossover (no crossover at all down the front).
The Magnaflow resonator is 2.25inch dual-in-out case is 11inches long /8inches wide and is straight-through internal pipes and is mounted in line with where the factory Kidney mufflers were as that location allows the muffler to be tucked up better to the chassis allowing the pipes in front to the Tri-Ys to be tucked up nice and tight to the chassis for better ground clearance.
So no crossover pipe up front otherwise you will stuff up (if using the same Magnaflow mufflers as mine) what has been designed by Magnaflow themselves to work and sound best with our M117 engines.
87 White Euro 500SEC "ECE" 195kw
88 Black Euro 560SEC 220kw
89 Midnight Blue Euro 560SEL hydro 220kw AMG Kitted
http://www.flickr.com/photos/krh2013/sets/72157632548663623/
https://www.flickr.com/photos/krh2013/albums/72157668572599252

hents99
E Class
Posts: 61
Joined: Sat 15 Nov, 2008 11:07 pm
Model you own: w126
Location: Estonia
Contact:

Re: SEC exhaust options

Post by hents99 » Sat 03 Feb, 2018 6:28 pm

Make your own stainless steel muffler :)
I couldn`t source anything good with reasonable price so I handcrafted one for W126. I hope it works also....should be quiet. Dual 3".

Image
560SEC, C55, W201 (2.3-16T + 2.5-16)

SW4
C Class
Posts: 27
Joined: Tue 06 Nov, 2012 10:41 pm
Model you own: w126
Region: Queensland
Location: Sunshine Coast

Re: SEC exhaust options

Post by SW4 » Sun 04 Feb, 2018 8:56 am

Thanks guys,
A lot of very talented people on this forum!
I've found a Magnaflo dealer over this way so I'll check them out over the coming weeks. I'm also going to price a stainless replica of the original system from Timevalve in the US. I really don't won't anything too loud or obnoxious. I will also ceramic coat the headers when the engine is done also.

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